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Preaching hell from the Bible by Gordon Cheng (1 comment). Hell is a sphere of separation and deprivation, of pain and punishment, of darkness and destruction, and of disintegration and perishing. … more
The God of the nobody by Jean Williams (0 comments). This is the sixth post in Jean's series on women in the Bible. (Read the first, second, more
Can you feel it? by Rachel Macdonald (0 comments). In the September issue of The Briefing, Tony Payne writes about the role of emotions in being a … more
10 in 2 by Ben Pfahlert (6 comments). In January 2010 I set myself a goal that has transformed my diary, my thinking, my reading and the … more
Taking ‘crazy’ one step closer to ‘can do’ by Guest blogger (2 comments). Guest blogger Mikey Lynch, one of the directors of The Geneva Push, talks about the network's approach to … more
Top 10 Tips for Sleep Deprived Prayer by Jennie Baddeley (5 comments). There are so many reasons for losing sleep it's not really worth listing them. You're either getting enough sleep or you're … more
Stress-throwers and stress-absorbers by Jean Williams (0 comments). Are you a stress-thrower or a stress-absorber? A stress-thrower blames things on others and expresses stress in anger; a … more
‘Missional Lifestyle’: Education by Nicole Starling (12 comments). This is the fifth in Nicole's series on ‘missional lifestyle’. Read parts 1, 2, 3 … more
Why do we pray for others? by Scott Newling (1 comment). Learning to pray for others is one of the first things we learn as Christians: we see it commended … more
Forgiveness and repentance (part 8): Does God only forgive us when we repent? (ii) by Mark Baddeley (17 comments). (Read parts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7.) Does … more
Tony Payne
Paul is one of the Staff Editors at Matthias Media. He is married to Cathy and has three fantastic kids. He loves student ministry, reading, writing music and playing the saxophone, and is looking forward to meeting Jesus face to face.
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Tony,
Have the ideas set forth in your and Col’s book been influenced in any way by Total Church? If so, where’s the overlap, or what premise is further expounded?
Hi Michael.
Interesting question. No influence as far as I know. These ideas were worked out and in practice well before ‘Total Church’ came on the scene.
As to overlap, there is some—as you would expect, given that we share so many theological convictions as Reformed Evangelicals. So like us, Steve Timmis and Tim Chester emphasize the importance of being prayerfully gospel-centred.
However, the approach or ‘model’ (not sure I like that word) is quite different in emphasis. I hate to say this, but you will probably have to read ‘The Trellis and Vine’ to see what I mean! (Too hard to elucidate here without writing an essay)
You might be interested in the online conversation Simon Flinders and I had with Steve Timmis about these issues.
TP
Hey Tony,
I have been challenged over the last 12 months and especially recently as I have been reading Cloud and Townsend’s ‘How People Grow’ to ask: how do the emotional and the relational aspects of life fit in with disciple-making?
I suppose what I am getting at is: what I have understood from my experiences is that issues not of a spiritual kind (ie. the emotional or the relational etc) can hold people back from or slow their spiritual growth.
If this is the case, should discipleship include working harder at helping people work through these other issues in addition to “the prayerful, Spirit-backed speaking of the message of the Bible” so that they would neither be held back nor slowed in their spiritual growth?
Hi Matt
Sorry for the delay in replying.
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I think my answer to your question would be that the message of the Bible often has a lot more to say to our emotional and relational problems than we might at first think. Not in a simplistic proof-texty way, but in the deep, personality-transforming way that the Spirit reshapes us over time through the Word. I think we can be too quick to partition emotional or relational problems off, and label them as purely medical. They may be medically (or psychologically) treatable, and this is good, but that is usually not the whole story.
I believe Tim Chester’s new book ‘You can change’ addresses these issues. I haven’t read it. Has anyone?
TP
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the reply.
My intention was to keep the worms where they are as well. And if I knew how to edit my previous comment (I don’t do computers), I think I’d prefer to phrase:
“issues not of a spiritual kind can hold people back from or slow their spiritual growth”
as a question.
I think we’re on the same page as one another… I certainly think it’s true that the Bible helps us with those issues
“in the deep, personality-transforming way that the Spirit reshapes us over time through the Word”. I think my concern is when someone has a “just read the bible” cure to those issues without actually engaging with those issues.
Matt
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