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The Sola Panel is dead; long live the Sola Panel! by Tony Payne (4 comments). Regular Sola Panel readers will no doubt have detected a little slowness and quietness over the past six weeks or so. … more
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Paul is one of the Staff Editors at Matthias Media. He is married to Cathy and has three fantastic kids. He loves student ministry, reading, writing music and playing the saxophone, and is looking forward to meeting Jesus face to face.
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thanks Paul. Good insights.
Perhaps an alternative is “The Gospel is all about the failure of morality”
I know what you are trying to get at here. But still: ethics without worship is deadly stuff!
A guy called John Milbank wrote this stirring stuff, in an essay in which he challenges the idea of ‘morality’.
... the Christian man is not a moral man, not a man of good conscience, who acts with what he knows of death, scarcity and duty to totalities. He has a bad conscience, but a good confidence: for he acts ith what he does not know but has faith in. In absolute trust he gives up trying to be good, to sustain a right order of government within himself. The Romans that Paul wrote to did this already, but they still needed a letter from Paul - to hear what? Simply to hear the other, receive the other, and through the other receive the gratuitous God. Cease to be self-sufficient in the face of scarcity. Instead to be good as first receiving from the all-sufficiency of God, and acting excessively out of this excess.
Well as with most things… yes… but no. As you say it depends on the situation and who you are talking to.
Morality needs to come into the picture somewhere, especially in envangelism I find.
Why would I need a saviour, or need to worry about a God if there were no standards, and that God had no power to punish?
The law, 10 commandments, the sermon on the mount etc. are all about morality. Moral standards that we cannot match, revealing sin, bursting the bubble of self assurance, pricking the conscience for the need of Jesus.
Knowing a holy God and morality, I want to be forgiven because I know I need to be forgiven…
But then morals and living as a Christian is different, and relating to Christians and non Christians different again.
(I feel like I am writing to people who could explain that clearer and in more depth commenting here…)
If the Gospel is ALL about morality, then works and a well-ordered society should be sought. If the Gospel is ALL about being in a right relationships with God then morality will be a result due to the nature of the God who we are in relationships with. Having said that, this was a helpful reminder of the need to hold on the necessity of ethics in our Christian witness.
Hi All,
Thanks for the comments. I think that I’ve most likely failed to communicate very well. For example, I think Sam, that I’m trying to say that the righteous life, the truth about what God wants for us, is the same whether you’re talking to the Christian or the non-Christian.
Jesus came to die not just for forgiveness but in order that by the power of the Spirit we might live in newness of life. We are saved not just from the consequences of sin, but sin itself.
To put it another way, you cannot separate the Lordship of Jesus (which is the essential call of the gospel) from it’s concrete expression. Jesus is calling us to repent from our old life and to put on the new life.
And so, and Michael I agree with you completely, I think that what I’m saying is that worship of God and morality are fundamentally connected. The worship of God is about understanding who he is and living in light of it.
Which is why, Mike, the gospel isn’t just about the failure of morality but about the establishment of true morality. Our problem is largely, I suspect with the word morality and it’s connotations, but we need to think about the ideas.
Jesus is offering a different perspective of life and his Lordship is all encompassing. We are calling on people to leave their old life of rebellion and live the new life of obedience. Not in any earning salvation kind of way but because these are the very things that Jesus died and rose for.
Am I getting any clearer? Maybe not!
let me modify my statement to better reflect what I think we’re all on about: The gospel is the link between the failure of morality and the establishment of true morality.
Mike
Thanks Mike, sorry for mishearing you the first time around.
no need to say sorry - what I articulated was incredible painful to re-read. Though it is about as accurate as “the gospel is all about Morality”. Both obviously need more fleshing out.
Such as the gospel is all about re-establishing sinful humans into a right relationship with God, living rightly under his rule. In that sense, it is all about morality. However, the gospel is also a declaration of the failure of human morality, and the need for the atonement. In this sense, it is all about the failure of morality.
I suppose as soon as we start a statement “The gospel is all about….” - we’re bound to get into some sort of trouble
Mike
Hi Paul,
Your post made me think about whether sin is something moral or something spiritual with moral consequences? (Although it’s difficult to even talk about sin and evil as things in and of themselves, given that sin is uniquely human.)
Hey brothers,
It’s an interesting little chat. Pardon me if I’m wrong, but it seems to boil down to attempting to find a set of words which rightly places ethics within the framework of relationship, particularly the redemptive relationship of our Lord to his rebellious-yet-sanctified people.
Am I understanding the concern of your post correctly, Paul?
At the the risk of getting into trouble ...
Isn’t the Gospel all about grace?
I can’t remember where I got the following quote from but I think it’s has some legs.
“Grace - the freedom to be a sinner found in Christ - is the foundation for keeping the law. which is what Christians want to do.”
I as soon as we start making the Gospel about anything else other then our reconciliation with God then we risk making that (our reconciliation) an assumption.
In the context of this post if we start to over emphasize morality it could mean that we assume our salvation by faith through Christ and start proclaiming morality as the solution to sin rather than Christ crucified.
The next step after assuming the Gospel is forgetting the Gospel.
Let’s never forget or assume Christ crucified for us. (not that I think you are in danger of this Paul) but I do think that the average Joe in the street is.
Hi Phil,
I agree with you completely about not wanting to leave grace behind. I just think that I want to push us to expand our understanding of grace. So, to quote Titus 2, the grace of God teaches us to say no to ungodliness. God’s grace which is the foundation for the reconciliation that you are talking about includes the wonderful gift of restoring us to living under the rule of the Lord Jesus.
While the rule of Jesus can’t be reduced to morality, I don’t think that it can be divorced from reality. Does that make sense?
And all the people said
AMEN
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