Physical resurrection Sandy Grant

Leigh Windsor11/05/2008 05:28 PM

Sandy,
thankyou for taking the trouble to write to him - politely even!
My own instincts are a bit more primitive.
Leigh

Thanks for this, Sandy. Archbishop Herft has been kind enough to enter into a brief email dialogue with me over this matter. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has written to him.

Perhaps in a few weeks when I receive his final reply we might be in a position to understand more clearly what he thinks about this.

Alex Phillips12/05/2008 12:24 AM

Unfortunately it’s not the first time Dr. Shepherd has denied an essential creedal truth. In 2005 during a Good Friday Eucharist at St. George’s Cathedral he denied the doctrine of penal substitution.

Dr Shepherd was reported in The West Australian newspaper as having said, “The idea of God suffering and dying to pay off some fictional debt makes a travesty of God…

“Whether we are repentant, unrepentant - whether we ask forgiveness, or not - God couldn’t care less”.

Dear Sandy,

Thanks for your comments brother. However, I suspect it’s better to appeal to the Anglican (and universal) creeds rather than the 39 articles (which many Anglican clergy believe they don’t have to strictly believe depending on their diocesan statutes etc.).

The Apostles’ Creed largely was constructed in light of the Gnostic controversy of the 2nd century. Gnostics, of course, didn’t believe in a resurrection body (because matter was evil). Hence when Scripture spoke of the resurrection they interpreted it to mean a non-bodily spiritual experience.

Thus the early form of the Apostles’ Creed rebutted Gnosticism at this point (as did Irenaeus) by affirming that Christ’s human body was real, that he “suffered death and was buried [...] on the third day he rose again”.

Modern liberals who deny a bodily and physical resurrection have more in common with Gnosticism than historic Christian, as summarised in the most basic Christian creed of all, the Apostles’ Creed, especially written to rebut the idea of non-physical/bodily resurrection.

To deny the bodily and physical resurrection is not only not Anglican, it’s also not Christian.

God bless dear brother,

Marty.

Marty, thanks for your comment… You might have missed my comment above in the original post, just prior to my quote of Article 4, where I also speak about the Apostles’ Creed and the resurrection of the body, and note that these Creeds form part of the Fundamental Declarations that liberal clergy cannot wiggle out of so easily as some claim to be able to do so with the Articles.

Dear Sandy,

Yes, absolutely. My particular point is that the Apostles Creed was written specifically to address directly the issue of a bodily / physical resurrection. In other words, the Church has debated and resolved that issue as one of the first controversies ever.

God bless brother.

John Engelden17/05/2008 07:37 PM

Sandy, there is one aspect you’ve overlooked. The resurrection was physical to demonstrate the perfection of the original creation and to show that death was not natural to it. If death had been a natural aspect to Jesus’ creation then he couldn’t have escaped it because, as a man, he had entered into it, made “his tabernacle among us.”

Marty,

the Thirty-nine Articles are still specifically articulated as ruling principles in the constitution of the Anglican Church of Australia.

For an Australian Anglican priests they are still the theological benchmark.

We know not All Australian Anglican priests subscribe to the theology of the Thirty-nine articles. But they are ‘out of communion’ with the Authentic Anglican Church.

Gavin

Gav,

Various dioceses will give various interpretations of “assent” to the articles.

The point is this: the articles indicate the Anglican faith, the creeds specify the Christian faith. Better to start with the fact that a denial of the physical/bodily resurrection excludes one from Christianity well before it excludes one from Anglicanism.

Cheers dude.

Marty,

some people are more concerned about unity in the Anglican denomination rather than unity in the Christian faith. The two are quite different.

Cranmer would roll in his grave to hear the Articles undermined in this way.

I think “assent” from 39 Article dissenters is a legal fudge if you had the energy to push it through the ecclesiastical courts. 

Gavin

Cranmer likely doesn’t have a grave, ‘cos, um, he was burnt. Remember that? grin

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